#88 - Men vs Women: A Discussion About Dealing With the Opposite Sex
In the old days, talking about feelings and emotions with the opposite sex is considered taboo. Young men and women are taught to avoid having deep conversations with the opposite sex as it may lead to something else.
But in this generation, having guy or girl friends is totally normal. Some believe that a normal friendship between a man and a woman is not possible and many still have the fear of trusting the opposite sex.
In Episode 88, Benjy and Andrew are joined by the two ladies, Carina, and her friend Joo Yeon. They talk about how important it is to have friends of the opposite sex, and how to create a balance between being friends and knowing your boundaries. They also share their experiences from their childhood about dealing with crushes, infatuation, and building strong relationships with the person they love.
Learning to admit your feelings, and allowing yourself to control and understand it will be your first step to dealing with the opposite sex. Having feelings are normal because we are humans, it is our natural reaction when we meet someone attractive, nice, or kind. But, it is up to us if we can learn to control them.
Join us in this week’s episode to learn more about how to find your purpose, learn to control your emotions, overcome awkward situations with the opposite sex, and finally feel safe and build genuine relationships may it be with a man or a woman.
Evolution is all about getting better
Feeling free to have more conversation with the opposite sex
Creating a healthy balance in relationships
The pressure to live by a certain standard
Recover that relationship as a friendship
Learning how to identify attractive qualities in every individual regardless of what they look externally
Understanding infatuation
Why motivation is very important?
How to deal with your feelings?
How your time, attention, and energy affects your feelings
Having a real and genuine connection with someone
Episode Transcript:
Andrew Love
Welcome back to Love Life and Legacy, a podcast dedicated to helping you navigate these hypersexualized times of ours. In today's episode, we're doing somewhat of a sequel. It's a sequel plus where Benjy and I brought up the topic of how to not be creepy around the opposite sex. But now we actually have the opposite sex present to talk about what it's like to be a woman in this world. So it's Benjy and myself and Carina and Carina's friend, Joo Yeon. And we get into this. It's a really, really helpful conversation if you're single and preparing for marriage. If you are married to anyone, look at your own history and how to move forward with a little bit more grace, and also how to raise kids in the future so we can get better. Evolution is all about getting better and better and better. So let's evolve together, figure out a way to really master this second realm of heart. These loving brothers and sisters as brothers and sisters without conditions with just love. Just love, just pure love. Let's get into it. Enjoy. Welcome back, everybody. We have some fancy guests with us today because we want to do the second half of a conversation that Benjy and I started. We brought up the issue of how important it is to have friends of the opposite sex but we realized that we were just want to have the conversation. So we'd love to have the opposite sex actually be represented in this conversation to go a little bit deeper. See what the female perspective is with guy friends because I think sometimes guys are needed but they don't know how to be in the right place at the right time or say the right thing. And also, sometimes we can be creepy without even knowing it. So we're going to unpack this and figure out how exactly to make this work because it is the foundation. It's a relationship. Loving your brothers and sisters as siblings. Mastering that as a foundation to then love one person your whole heart. So we have with us, Benjy. Hi, Benji.
Benjy Uyama
Hi, Andrew.
Andrew Love
And we also have, everybody, knows, Carina. Welcome back, Carina.
Carina Méndez
Hello, everyone. Great to be here again.
Andrew Love
And lastly, we have Joo Yeon, who is Carina's best friend. Just before this talk, they were talking about how much they love each other and how best friends they are. So, welcome Joo Yeon.
Joo Yeon Fayad
Hello. Thank you for the invitation.
Andrew Love
Yes, awesome. Let's just start with this. Growing up, Carina and Joo Yeon, did you have any close guy friends?
Joo Yeon Fayad
Personally, I did. At least with people from the church, we were really close. So there was this big family, they have six kids in the history of the church. So all the other kids that live outside will go to church and then meet them, and everything. And we have started growing up together. So yes, we were pretty close since a very young age, that's why it was very natural for me to just relate with the opposite gender.
Andrew Love
And did things change at all? Because you started when you were really little kids. But as you grew up, went through puberty, you started noticing that guys and girls are different. Did that change the dynamic of your friendship? Or was it always just like they were you?
Joo Yeon Fayad
It was very interesting. That was at church, right? So everyone has the same mindset. So it was very natural. But then from elementary school, like the fifth grade, sixth grade from then I went to this school and it was, of course, with a mixed-gender. Then I started having boy friends. Then they started talking about, oh, I like this girl. I like the other, or I like him or like her. So then I was like, hmm, interesting. What is it? That's the first time I was introduced to the word "liking" her.
Carina Méndez
But for me, at least, it was taboo. After that, it became taboo to talk about feelings or to talk about that like, oh, I like him or he's cute, or those kinds of things.
Andrew Love
Got it. We'll swing back to that. I want to hear from Carina. What about you, did you have any guy friends growing up?
Carina Méndez
I think until I was five or six. Yes, we have friends, they were boys and we were basically everyone at the same level, and I will fight with them. I was at the same level. The people around my age were boys as well. I have girls that are not so different. I don't remember having such a difference between boys and girls when we were playing. The only difference was that they will play more video games. I think they were too good about it. Then I will get upset. I have a younger brother and we were the same. My brother, he and another friend will play. At some point, they were too good at video games so they will play video games themselves, I believe. Because I will always lose and that hurts me. But otherwise, for other kinds of games such as outside games/ outdoor games are okay. But then they left, and I didn't have any more at school. I never had any friends that were boys. And then at church, I felt like I shouldn't be close to, as we start to learn about the fall and to fall in love and the separation between boys and girls, and my sisters' and my brothers' affection. I didn't want it to be close to the boys, because I was afraid of what they would say. At school, I was more free with boys. But the problem is, I will always hand it out, or either they like me or I like them. So never was I in a very healthy relationship. So I didn't know if I'm super successful in this area until I received the blessing. And then I felt so free. Finally, I was able to have a conversation with a brother without worrying about hearing my own feelings or his own feelings. They were like, okay, finally, I felt free to have more conversation with the opposite sex, which is interesting. I don't know if that is a healthy approach, though.
Andrew Love
So you both mentioned things changing in your elder years, like when you were in high school and stuff. And then you were getting an education about sex but in a very religious context. The fall. Danger, danger, danger. So did that just create a lot of tension and awkwardness?
Carina Méndez
For me, definitely.
Joo Yeon Fayad
Yes. I don't know anybody who was not pressured by that. At least at some point of their lives, they were very pressured for that.
Andrew Love
So do you feel that boys were trying to be your friend and you would just push them away because you didn't know how to handle that? Or did you just make it known that you're not open for business, like nobody's welcome?
Carina Méndez
I think it makes you self-conscious. If they will not tell you since you are six years old that you can create, like if you have a conversation with a brother, you can create feelings and that's evil. And they always present to you the fact that we're in that relationship, with that conversation, that give and take can take you. So they're constantly telling you that it can go this way so be careful. Every time that you have a minute with a brother, the first thing that comes into your mind is not about good intentions like how to be a brother, but it's about, does this person have feelings for me? Do I have feelings for him? Is this right? At least in Latin America, when you get older, you don't even sit next to each other. Brothers and sisters sit separately all the time, and you're not supposed to have conversations with a brother. So if for example, you for some reason, and are sitting next to a brother, the first thing that comes up is emotional feelings like butterflies, like oh my gosh, I'm sitting next to a brother. Which, if you are more used to that and is super natural, you're like, oh hi there.
Joo Yeon Fayad
I think that's the thing. I think that they told us like, oh, you have to treat each other as brothers and sisters. But then at the same time, they're telling you, oh no, you can not be just the two of you in the room, or you can not talk to the boy alone, or you can not play with him just by yourself. So they create that fear. But then, at the same time, they're telling you, okay, treat the person as your brother or your sister. So then it's confusing. And then he's like, okay, I want to treat him like my brother but I don't know how to, because I have a younger brother too and I play with my brother. We watch television together. We listen to music together, using the same earphones. We do any of those activities together with my brother, but he's my physical brother/ biological brother. But then why can I do the same with the other boys? Or why when I do it, it's weird? Or then I get the look from the people around. So that makes everything more uncomfortable. And of course, it makes you think like, oh, am I doing something wrong? So then you start thinking and overthinking.
Andrew Love
So very unnatural. Kind of an unnatural feeling. Benjy, you got any questions for these guys?
Benjy Uyama
I was going to comment that I think that this is a big question that comes up for a lot of people. It's really hard. And we're not just talking about teenagehood, we're talking about everyday life. These are things that even to an extent we experienced right now as adults and young adults. So to help answer that question, I would tell people that there's obviously a healthy balance. And obviously, that was created and designed to be in relationships and to create familiar relationships and close relationships with people. But oftentimes, what happens is we're maybe seeing that relationship or that person of the opposite gender from maybe an unhealthy perspective. Maybe even a sexualized perspective. So that's just an area that we can be careful of. And I think that's where a lot of the heart, like my parents, for example, had the heart to protect because they understood that there is an unhealthy balance. There's an unhealthy perspective that I can develop towards somebody. That's usually based on my own mistakes or my own experience with over-indulging in pornography growing up. So as long as I was steeped in that culture in that environment, there was no way for me to ever look at a woman truly as a sister or a daughter of God, in other words or my sister. If, simultaneously, I was watching porn or watching not just pornography, but just hypersexualized content, videos or movies, or tv shows. Instagram, it becomes more and more challenging to do that.
Carina Méndez
Yes. I don't think it's all the fault of the church. Even in school, it's not normal to have a friend that is a boy. They're always asking you, do you like each other? There's always pressure in society as well that a man and a woman are talking with each other. They have feelings for each other. So I guess it's a fear from the church, but as well as the push of society, you're supposed to be in a relationship. A lot of people don't believe in friendship for men and women. And I just want us to all come to the point that it is true. This has an impact even now. So for example, for myself, I'm married but I have a situation where I was having a conversation with a brother one-on-one, and I started to feel super uncomfortable. I didn't know if it was because of my concept or because I was feeling uncomfortable in the situation. So it is really tricky. I actually, up to this day I'm wondering, is this myself because of my fears and the concepts that I've been building up before marriage about a man and a woman relationship? Or is this a healthy boundary that I am trying to create? So I don't know, personally. So I'm looking forward to discussing it in this podcast and hearing about your opinions as well.
Andrew Love
Yes, that's really interesting stuff to know. Because a lot of times, honestly speaking, it could be a misinterpretation. If somebody's like, oh you're being creepy. But actually, it's just they're afraid of whatever that person is in their head like big men or whatever the case may be. It doesn't necessarily mean that that person is being creepy. Sometimes they are, but sometimes they're not. And so it's interesting to hear you say that as an introspective person. So I would like to know, given the fact that this is your upbringing. I like that point that you said, Carina, that either way, there's pressure. If you're alone with a guy in a religious scenario, then there's pressure to not do that, because it means something. It means something more than friendship. And then if you're in high school and there are no standards, then if you're alone with a guy, then it means something. Because then there's pressure to be with that person because clearly you like each other so you should just be with each other. And so either way, it's actually unnatural pressure. You're not just allowed to just be with that person as another human being. It got to mean something. And I can see that too, which is a very interesting perspective. So the fact that you grew up in this scenario and then there's clear pressure to live by a certain standard, but you're also human so you have feelings. How do you navigate those feelings? You feel something for somebody, how do you sort through what that means or what to do with those feelings growing up?
Joo Yeon Fayad
In my case, when I was young, because I used to watch Disney movies and everything is so romantic and so cute and so beautiful and everything. Obviously, when you're a kid you're like, I want the same because you're seeing the princesses, and you want to become that princess. So I used to be the one who could, I don't like calling it falling in love easily, but then I had a crush on people easily. Because of that also, I go, there's this guy and he gave me that apple.
Andrew Love
If it's a Disney movie, don't eat the apple.
Joo Yeon Fayad
So I had those times. And I don't know how but I ended up talking about that with my dad when I was a little bit older, maybe 13-14 years old. And he told me that he was like, yes, having feelings for someone is very normal. That's totally normal because that's what you're supposed to feel. That's your physical instincts. Those are your instincts and they're natural, they're normal. It's supposed to happen, it's okay. But it's also normal to know how to control them because when you feel them, it doesn't mean that you have to just follow your heart and do all the things that that emotion is telling you to do. But it's also normal to control those feelings and know what you really want. So I think at that point, it's very important to also know yourself and thinking like, what do I want for my future? Or what kind of person doesn’t want to be in the future? And maybe having that purpose helps you to control those kinds of situations in the process.
Andrew Love
What does that look like when you're saying to control your feelings? Let's say some boy gives you a nice big apple and you're totally in love with him and then you see him the next day and you're like, I'm gonna control my feelings. What does that look like? How do you do that?
Joo Yeon Fayad
If I have a crush on him, I won't accept the apple. Or if I do, I'd be thankful and I'm like, okay, thank you so much but I've tried to avoid you as much as they can. Because we're humans also, the instincts might be very strong also and I don't know how I'm going to react in front of that. So I just prefer not involving myself with that person, just in one-on-one situations. But I'll try to do it in a group. In a group, it's okay. Three, four or five people, we're just chilling, hanging out and talking and that's okay. But then when it becomes a one-on-one situation, I don't know how I will react in front of any situation that can happen. It's a risky situation. So I just prefer to avoid that. Then just, if I have a crush on that person, it's okay, it's normal. But then, I'd meet a person in a group. I won't really go into one-on-one situations. But if I don't have a crush on that person, and that person gives me that. So thank you, I'll eat this apple and take it to the house. But I think knowing also the purpose, maybe not making up a story in your head of like, oh maybe he's giving me this apple because he likes me. Instead of thinking like, oh, he's a nice person, probably he wants to share this up. Thank you. And that's it.
Andrew Love
I feel like guys never get apples by the way. That seems such a one-way gift. Benjy, did any woman ever give you an apple in your whole life? Has your wife ever given you an apple before?
Benjy Uyama
No, no apples, no flowers.
Andrew Love
Yes, so one-sided. What about you, Carina, because you also mentioned feelings. You're having a feelings fest over there and just feel all the time for everybody. How do you cope with it?
Carina Méndez
I have funny stories of me trying to cope with these feelings. First, trying to explain the fall to a guy so he can understand why I will not go on a date with him. So I remember this conversation very seriously. I was trying like, I like you but Lucifer drives...
Andrew Love
How did that go?
Carina Méndez
He was like, I don't understand anything that you're saying. But I'm happy that you like me back. So it didn't work out so well. Then I made a really big commitment of like, okay, sorry, we're not talking anymore. So I think they've given the decision, or distance themselves from that person. And yes, you can recover that relationship as a friendship whenever those feelings go away. So there have been like, I may have a feeling for someone. It gives some months of just no interaction with a person and not entertaining certain thoughts in my mind. And then naturally, we can come back to a more brother and sister relationship. But you have to give time for those to go away.
Andrew Love
Can I ask if, when you make space between somebody and then you see them a few months later, have those feelings just disappeared? Or do they return? Or how's that work?
Carina Méndez
Always depending. If it's in another country, that's perfect. Because if your past couple of years and then you go back, and if he comes back, you just give a little bit more distance. You have to work. You have to decide. First of all, I guess you need to admit that you have those feelings, and then decide what to do with those. I have made quite a decision on what I'm going to do with it. If you just leave it there, your natural tendency is to get closer and closer. So definitely, you're going to need to make a decision. And the hardest part is you think you had to explain yourself, or you had to explain it to that person why are you going to take some distance. So I think that's a harder and the tricky part of navigating. If you create a certain relationship with a person and then you need to distance yourself, I guess a mature person who's easier to explain or just to say like, hey, I need some distance from you if that's okay. But when you are a teenager, you get so worried about what people are going to think about you and what are you going to think about them, and you're self-conscious. So as long as you get older, it gets easier to just accept that.
Andrew Love
Yes. You just become a little bit more self-assured. Your values are stronger. Benjy, you got anything?
Benjy Uyama
Yes, I do. Andrew, I want to hear from you too about this question. So I want to share just a brief story about someone I'm talking with right now who is in an engagement matching process or wants to get matched and receive the blessing and get married. And he is in a situation where he has somebody in mind that he is attracted to, "has an emotional attachment to". And so, after doing some work with him, he's really, really a solid guy, a really good person, very high standard. A High Noon living individual has his sexual integrity in check. All the boxes are checked for this guy. And he's really struggling like, do I approach this family and start a matching process/ communication with? And what I realized from him is that there's a big difference between infatuation and genuine attraction. What I mean by that is that infatuation being like, you see a cool car on the street and you just want it immediately despite how expensive or even if it's a good car, if it runs properly but it looks awesome. And a genuine attraction, like attraction or infatuation being based on things that are rather superficial or temporary. Or things that are maybe popular or they're attractive, society speaking, superficially attractive, or they are cool or whatever. But genuine attraction is more of a learned skill about how you identify the genuine attractive natures of qualities of an individual despite their looks. This is something that, I think, is crucial in selecting a spouse which is ultimately the reason we have like Joo Yeon's dad said, the reason we have these feelings is for mate selection, essentially. So it's a natural thing. I think it's a learned skill to know how to identify attractive qualities in every individual irregardless of what they might look like, externally, or how tall they are, or what color skin there is, or what language they speak or things like that, or how old they are. So I really challenge this guy, that I'm talking with, to really try to identify and make a selection the real genuine things about them that are unique, that are God-given, that you can see are just truly like, will this person's qualities help me as an individual, in a marriage, in a relationship? Would it help us to grow together, to expand our capacity, to love each other, and to love God above the world and raise children? I think it's a really important distinction. So in sharing my experience when I was a younger teenager, and even now actually, honestly, when I had an attraction to people that were really beautiful, or have lots of makeup and the popular girls, I would always try to win those attractions and identify that I had misconceptions based on what I thought was beautiful. And I would try to, instead, look for qualities in all sisters and brothers, everyone that is actually attractive, like their God-given attraction. And that was kind of practice, but I can say honestly now, that when I look at women, I can look at women and see something attractive about them that really sticks out. And I find those people the most attractive. The people that really live into their unique qualities and the people that don't fall into the boxed societal standard of what beauty is. Even if I go to the gym and there are really attractive people there like men and women, honestly, I'm grossed out by people that are way too over the top attractive and looking in the mirror and taking pictures of themselves. Those people with the yoga pants, at this point, it's a little gross because I can see that that's not who they truly are. Does that make sense? Of course, it’s beauty. It is beauty. It's external beauty. God made us in His image externally and internally, but I'm really trying to look for what's really beautiful about a person, like their character, like how patient they are or how loving they are, or how caring they are. I know this sounds very fluffy and sappy but I think that's really important. Especially when you're dealing with infatuation, as opposed to an attraction is identifying it as that. Maybe wait a few months before you even consider a relationship or you take any action on it. Give it some time and just try to internalize and recognize that. But that's honestly, I can say that's a practice that I did when I was younger because I tried to distinguish and make sure that I was looking at people from a real genuine attraction perspective, as opposed to just body parts or whatever.
Andrew Love
Yes. I had a conversation with a young guy yesterday who's also preparing for somebody else. And it is more like pillars, like what pillars can you really build a relationship with? And like, look for those because all the other stuff just gets real boring real quick. Like how cool they are, how cool they walk, all these things that we write a story about that person and fall in love with, it all fades away very quickly, and they become annoying very quickly. Because that's not who they are, that's just who you're making them out to be. So yes, that's very cool. Thank you, Benjy.
Joo Yeon Fayad
There was something about infatuation. When I said that I used to easily have crushes on people, but they easily also faded away. Because I think, just as he says, for me when I keep it inside of me, and I keep having thought with it and giving an action of give and take with this feeling and with this thought, then it starts getting bigger and bigger and starts to grow. And then I just made up my mind with many things. But then, when I have these friends and I used to be like, oh my God, he's so cute. And then they'll be like, oh yeah, he is. But then, we would just talk about it, and then okay. I don't have anything else to have that action or even take that thought. I just said it, and it's gone. And that's it. I don't think it's bad to see somebody that is very attractive and has nice hair, nice eyes, and I don't think there's a problem with saying that he's very cool or she's very pretty because it's true and we have eyes. And with those eyes, we see the beauty of the creation. So there are many people who are like that, and I don't think there's a problem with feeling that. It just fades away. It's like you say it, and then that's it.
Andrew Love
Yes, absolutely. Letting it be a true statement, but not making it mean anything. Telling a story about it. Yes, that's all fantasy. Cool. Thank you. I wanted to know also because Joo Yeon, you brought it up. No sitting next to the opposite sex. This regimented which leads to some sort of starvation. You're starving. Naturally, you want to touch people, friends, family. It's like a need. It's not a want, it's a need. But that's a dicey topic of, when is touch okay? Hugging, high five, how many high fives are too many before you're almost like holding hands? We see people who are starved like, I know guys who are really starved for attention. They could even be married, but they're in a dysfunctional relationship or it's just a bad time in their relationship. A woman could just brush their shoulder, and all of a sudden, their heart is pounding. It means something again because they're so starved for basic human contact. So growing up, was that ever an issue? And the question really is, what are healthy boundaries? And how much touch is too much? How much is enough? Because like you said, Joo Yeon, if you liked your brother, I don't know if you guys had a good relationship, we'd probably hug every now and again. It's not a weird thing to hug your brother. Nobody's like, don't hug your brother, because that's weird to be weirded out by your siblings showing affection to each other. But somehow, if they're not biologically connected to you, it's weird. So growing up, did you guys ever run into that? Did you ever find yourself touching too much or being starved for touch? Or how did you deal with that?
Carina Méndez
I used to go to a private school. It was a Christian private school, Adventist. I was with my best friends, all girls who never had a boyfriend, never kissed and they were so pure. I passed from that military high school where nobody believed in God, and everyone likes parties and relationships. And I can count with my fingers how many people were still virgins. So everyone was already in another stage. It was real-time for me. And I remember that guys will come and hack me there, they will touch. They were very touchy in our school. So I remember that week, based on that touch, I started to generate more feelings in terms of like, wow, this feels good but I'm worried, but I'm nervous and I didn't know what to do with that. It's like I couldn't say no to people. I didn't know how to set boundaries either. But at the same time, it felt good because probably there was that hunger that I wanted to receive that kind of love and attention. So I didn't push myself too much to stop it either. But at the same time, I just create the stories in my mind as well based on that. So what is too much what is like, after love, I went to the opposite. I never touch anyone else, never let myself be touched, and it didn't impact my marriage either. Even, for example, my brother's wife, she never touches any brother, not even hands. She's Japanese and she made a promise that she will not touch any men until she's [inaudible]. So she will not even shake hands with single men. So they will come to her and they will have distance. They have a very full testimony where they come to a ceremony and they start to hold hands. My brother realized that she was very caring and very touchy with him. So I was like, he asked her isn't it weird that you are never allowed to be touched by brothers? Isn't that weird for you to touch me now? And she said, it's not that I didn't want to touch, I just want to touch the right person so I was protecting this experience to experience the first with you. I don't know if they're connected. I wonder. I don't know because yes, there's a hunger but that hunger comes more from a lack of love than for something really needed to be touched. And then when you are with the right person you can offer like, we touch and touch as much as you want and it feels good. So I honestly don't know. I'm just sharing what I heard and what was my experience about it. But I don't know what the answer is.
Andrew Love
But you're blessed now. You're married. You have a man. You have a manly man. You have a Robert. And you, obviously, touched. I've seen you hold hands. I have evidence with my own eyes. But are you okay with hugging another guy? Like a coworker, let's say, Benjy. When you haven't seen him for a while like you're at a staff retreat and you hug him. Is that okay?
Carina Méndez
Yes, I think it feels nice. I think hugging, as long as the intentions are very honest. I'm currently working on High Noon. I run for others, almost all the time when creating a healthy relationship with you guys. And I think it's okay, but I don't have the need to be hugging all the time just to say hi and to say goodbye. Once in a year, when we do our retreat. So what about you, Andrew, what do you think?
Andrew Love
About?
Carina Méndez
About touch.
Andrew Love
I like touch. Somebody, I can't remember who. But there is an older woman who's really touching me a lot the other day. It was so maternal. Putting their hand on my back, and it was completely like my wife was around. It was very natural. But it felt very, very nice because I live really far apart from my own mother. But she's an older woman. Motivation is really important. Especially here with High Noon, people tell us a lot of information. I've been in this situation where a young lady has told me very personal information. And at that moment, I have to realize that I'm not me. I am a representative of something else. Something that I realized is that whenever somebody likes you or they think they like you, it's not you. It's what you represent to them at that moment. And especially leadership, if you can imagine right now the governor of New York is resigning over 12 allegations of sexual misconduct of sexual assault. We almost expected this point, because people abuse their power. But in reality, it's not even them, it's their position. Teachers and students, this whole thing. So I've always been very careful in that respect when I was a pastor who's dealing with a lot of people because they were vulnerable. People come to you when they're vulnerable. And that's when, from a predatory standpoint, they're easy to take advantage of. And so there are some churches that I think, Billy Graham, he had one of the biggest churches. He had a policy. You can never have a man and a woman alone. It doesn't matter who doesn't matter what or when alone in a room ever because that's just a recipe for disaster. Somehow intuitively knew it. And it sounds so ridiculous. I tried to maintain that. There were situations where I'd end up with people long. But I just really try. If I am and I notice, let's say a woman's coming to me and she wants to tell me something that I'm just very cautious about where my eyes are, where my mind is, and that I don't like. It's like you're walking a fine line. You're walking a fine line because you're representing something to them. And also, we have different genetics, we have different spiritual influences. There are all sorts of different factors. Just don't, nothing, nothing. Just like that person and their needs. And really seeing beyond the fact that they're even a woman. That's the only way that I've survived because I've been in situations where, if I wasn't careful, things could have gotten weird very quickly. Even if nothing happened, I could have said something with the wrong motivation or whatever. And it could have just ruined my whole life. I think, as a guy, that's a great practice that I didn't have growing up. But that I learned in my late 20s, and then that was preparation for when I was married, which is how to be fully asexual in front of a woman. If it's just like, I'm not a guy. I'm just a human, and you're just a human, and how to really feel that. And then if your mind wanders anyway, you pull it back. Just bring it back. That's how I've trained myself, and it's worked well so far. But yes, in terms of touching, I just talked to a young lady the other day, it was at church. For me, the context is important, like you said, and it's also your motivation and their motivation. If I notice somebody being flirty, then I'll just kind of be a little bit cold with them. I don't know if I told you this in the last episode, Benjy, but there's a guy that I knew that if he felt that a girl was attracted to him, then he would make sure to fart in front of her just so that she'd be really grossed out to kill the spell, to break the spell. I don't do that because I can't fart on command. And I don't know if I would have the guts to do that, to be honest. But I definitely will be a little bit standoff-ish if I feel like somebody is assuming something about me. I don't like doing that because I'm a people pleaser, so it kind of hurts to not make somebody happy. But if I realize that it's for my own well-being and my family's well being then I'll just act like a little bit of a weenie, like an A-hole. Again, because there's a spell to me. It's a magnetism. And you've all felt it. Everybody's listening. Everybody on this call, we've all been locked in that tractor beam of like you're being pulled into somebody. In order to make sure that that doesn't happen, you have to be in control of yourself. And if you feel yourself getting pulled in, you have to break that magnetic attraction with absolute confidence or whatever you have to do because that'll destroy you. Because that's when you've lost control. That's why couples end up kissing or doing whatever with other people because they're just trapped in this magnetic field. So that's me. But I was wondering, Carina, because you mentioned this a little bit before. Joo young, are you blessed? Are you married?
Joo Yeon Fayad
Yes, I'm recently blessed.
Andrew Love
Congratulations. So then this applies to both of you. How does that work when you have a loved one in your life? How do you deal with feelings? How do you deal with the opposite sex? Has that changed? Has your strategy changed? Or is it just easier because you're fulfilled because your husbands take such great care of you?
Carina Méndez
So for me, I start to fall. I feel so liberated after being blessed in the relationship with the brothers. I guess, I felt like my intentions and the intentions of people were clear from the beginning to say no. So I had two rings in my finger, and they know that I'm happily married. That doesn't clean up all the possibilities because there are people who don’t care. I haven't been in a place where I'm with someone who doesn't care that I'm married. But otherwise, it is great. I am going through the challenge that I, not challenged, but I am more afraid of getting feelings for someone else right now. Because I know the consequences can be even more terrible now than they were when I was single. So I'm very scared. But I know that I should not be scared because I trust myself and I trust in the love that we have for each other. But there is something from my past that I still don't trust in myself. So that's where that fear comes from. I'm trying to work on that because it is not even healthy for our relationship that I'm scared of myself constantly.
Andrew Love
Before you were saying that feelings are natural. So that's a great question for if these feelings are natural, is it safe to assume that they're eventually going to rise? Possibly, it's just what you do with them. Same as when you're single, young, and growing up, that you might end up with feelings for somebody else.
Carina Méndez
I guess so. Since I'm very new to marriage, it feels so heavy. Like that possibility feels really heavy. So currently, I know that they will come up at some point, so I want to have a healthier approach when it comes. But currently, I'm so afraid of that. If that happens to me, I'm so afraid, because I probably will feel super guilty. So yes, it is supposed to be natural. Benjy and Andrew, you're probably going to tell me that being married for so many years, at some point they come up. But I'm currently super afraid of them. And it's something that comes from my experience from the past, and for the worry of breaking and losing my marriage for that. So yes, otherwise, this means that I think when things are clear, it's really nice with the brothers and sisters. But I'm afraid of that fear inside me.
Andrew Love
Thank you. What about Joo Yeon?
Joo Yeon Fayad
Honestly, I never thought about that before. It was easy for me to have a crush on someone before. But there was a point where it didn't matter anymore. It wasn't a crush anymore. So I cannot get used to that, and I never really had feelings, strong feelings for anybody else. Even though I had many male friends. It was very natural for me. So I never had in my head a said possibility for me to have feelings for somebody else after marriage. Not even a single one, I had very strong plans for anybody. So I don't think there's going to be anything stronger than I'm feeling now for my spouse.
Andrew Love
Yes. That's a great point. Since you're in the spring of your marriages, it's like you haven't been through a lot of the stuff that comes with marriage, the challenges, and whatever. But the same principle applies that the reason things can go away, feelings can go away so fast is because you don't feed them. Your time and attention, your energy that grows them and makes them mean something. It's just when you're vulnerable, when you're fighting, when your spouse is so annoying and you just don't know why they're so annoying. And then somebody else says, oh, you're so beautiful. And then at that moment, if you choose to just cut that off and invest back into your marriage, then you'll be fine every single time. But if you unplug that energy and then plug it into some fantasy of somebody else, then that's when things become problematic.
Joo Yeon Fayad
I think the moment you start having an action of take and receive with that person or with that feeling or with that thought, then is when you start creating the base when you let all these things happen. But if you have the purpose, if you know that you're blessed and you know that the way you want to go together even though you're fighting, I think you're clear with that. I think it would be easier for you to overcome those kinds of situations. I say that that's a recycling place without going through any challenges yet, but that's at least how I think. And I hope it can be in the future.
Andrew Love
Yes, absolutely. And even though you're both relatively newly blessed, you're not without a foundation. You've already built this foundation. That's the whole idea. And that's why we're doing this podcast is to help people, especially those who are still single to understand that that is your victory, is doing all this work ahead of time. So that you can kind of, in a sense, know how things are going to pan out when you're blessed because you know how to cut off that feeling if you don't want it. You don't just go along this way and that way, depending on where your heart or your genitals are taking you. You can operate from a higher dimension. So I think we're at that point. Do you guys have anything that you'd like to say that you felt was unsaid on this topic? Any one of you?
Carina Méndez
I guess I would like to hear from Benjy and you on your perspective on this last question since you are the ones who have been married for the longest. So I will lovely hear a lot
Joo Yeon Fayad
That's a good one, yes.
Benjy Uyama
Sure, I can share briefly. For me, like you guys are saying, it's about how I'm feeling in the day-to-day. So if I'm feeling really connected with my wife, then there's no void to fill. There's no need to go outside of my bubble, my environment. But there are times where I do feel low in our relationship, or I do you feel tension or do you feel disconnected for days or weeks sometimes. And during those times, I can feel the ground under me shifting. I can feel the slippery slope coming. Like when I go to the gym, I can begin to notice women more, you know, you can tell. So for me, it's not like an on or off, it's just like a scale of how connected I am feeling and how full I'm feeling. So the whole touch thing is, so the situation I'm in is I'm in a huge pickle because I love touching people. If you're with me, if we were here right now, I'd be touching you guys. Well, not all of you but Andrew at least. I love just being aggressive and intimate with people. So that's how I grew up from my parents, within our family, with other families or friends of mine. And then when I got blessed, I married into a family that touch was the bottom of the priority list in terms of things to do on a day-to-day. My wife is not interested in touch at all. So I was in a huge pickle at the beginning of our relationship, because all I wanted to do is touch her all day. And she's just like, this is really foreign to me. I don't feel comfortable. Of course, we've grown through this process. I've struggled a lot over the last 11 years of being married to her. But in the end, we make it work, and I have turned lemons into lemonade. I just touched her. Even if she doesn't want me to, I just grab her buttons like, hey, good morning. And she's like, stop it. I'm like, I don't care. Of course, lovingly. There are certain times where she's just like, okay, I'm not feeling it. I'm feeling the touch thing, so I'll just leave it to be. But most of the time, I can just get my feelings of physical affection just by hugging her in the morning or sleeping next to her. Touching her while she's sleeping, I do that a lot.
Andrew Love
Is that painting a very good picture of it?
Benjy Uyama
I know. I don't care. I just do it, man. That's our relationship. That's how I am, so I'm just going to go for it. And I resisted that for so long because I don't want to be polite like, oh, you know. Whatever, I don't care. She's fine with it. Also, my kids and I'm really aggressively touchy with them too, that's how they grew up so they're okay with it. And you, saying comments saying that I'm, you can ask my wife. Go ahead. Talk to her about it.
Andrew Love
But it's very true the way that you said is like when you go to the gym, there is no woman until you're struggling with your wife. And then they magically appear out of nowhere, and you notice them. I think that I definitely have had this conversation many times with my wife that I'll come to her and I'll say, honey, I just feel like we're struggling right now. And I'm really looking at a lot of women right now. I'm noticing them, and I don't want to. I want to give that to you. But I just feel like there's no way for me to do that, and I'm going elsewhere. So I always report to her, and she always laughs in my face when I tell her this because it just sounds like such a needy little boy. But definitely, the real thing is that you need love and attention. We all do. And then if you're not getting in a natural way, your scanners start looking for alternative options. And I'm so very observant of this, and I know what to do. But it is still this reaction that I have. And so, in order to course-correct and come back to where I need to, it's always talking and reporting to my wife, because it is. When you're really connected with somebody, then it's just like it's her and then it's everybody else. And they're all just like yes, you're cool, but you're not her. But then when you're fighting, then everybody else starts to just take a little bit more shape. And you notice a little bit more here and there. It's completely from a place of deprivation. I'm deprived of my needs. So it's not anybody else's fault. And so that's why I don't want to be a creep. The other thing that I try to tell you guys, is when you're looking at a woman and you're objectifying them, try as hard as you can to imagine what your face looks like in that moment because most likely, it's horrifying. And you look like a creepy guy from a movie like a murderer or something, you don't want that look. So just don't be that guy. But men are very visually stimulated, so it's hard not to observe people. But the difference is you can see a woman who's absolutely externally beautiful, but make nothing of it because you're so filled up. That's the difference. And otherwise, if you're not and if you're needy, then again, you start feeding that and making that mean something. So that's my technique. You got to play the long game, just talking about it. If those feelings do come up, just tell them. When you have feelings for somebody, it's completely make-believe. And then when you actually talk to a human about it, especially your husband, then things get very on the ground as gravity comes back. And you're like, oh my god, there's consequences and all this stuff that I wasn't thinking about in my stupid little fantasy. So that's always a failsafe. The idea of reporting and connecting to somebody real, that really, really helps. And then it just makes those feelings seem so ridiculous. Every time I've reported to my wife, I just feel like oh, I was being such a little baby right now. This is so humiliating.
Joo Yeon Fayad
But it's true. When you have them in your mind, they're so big. It's such a big deal when it's in your mind. But when you actually please yourself, talking about those thoughts, maybe it becomes so small that you're like, oh my gosh, I cannot believe that I'm really worried about these or something. So I really admire that of you telling your wife about that kind of situation. And that's something that I also want to do in the future if it happens with my husband. If that's something that I've told him, if it ever happens then please tell me. Let's work it out together as a couple, as a team that we are. So I really admire that part of talking about it.
Andrew Love
Yes, I felt bad bringing this up because I feel like I planted a seed. Carina started being filled with fear. Don't worry. No worries. No worries. It's all good. You guys have the foundation, remember. Any last words? We're going to wrap this up soon. We have time here. Benjy has something to say.
Benjy Uyama
No, I just want to say thank you everyone for listening in. And hopefully, it's helpful for everyone.
Andrew Love
I thought you're raising your hand. You don't wave on a podcast. They can't see your hand, Benjy. What about Carina or Joo Yeon, anything?
Carina Méndez
I just want to thank everyone. That was a great topic. I want to hear your comments as well. If you have any comments, it'll be lovely to hear from you. Put it on here, you can send it to us. You write it on Facebook and share the podcast with someone else as well. So yes, I am looking forward to hearing from you, as well.
Joo Yeon Fayad
Yes, it's a very interesting topic to talk about. There are so many perspectives, different perspectives. So I'm really grateful also to be able to share my thoughts and hear other people's thoughts about these. And I think dialogue always makes it better. It helps you learn also. So I think it was a very, very, very nice time. And yes, I hope it can create more dialogue in the comments. So yes, I will be looking forward to that too.
Andrew Love
As Sammy would say, "Amazing." Alright, everybody. Thank you for listening. Yes, we love to hear from you. Let us know if you have any questions. Or if you have any topics you want us to tackle, we have the Marvel All-stars. We're like the Avengers of sexuality, and we will conquer any topic. Just let us know. And thank you for listening. Adios! Hello everybody, Andrew Love here for one last announcement. And that is, I encourage you to join our newsletter. We don't spam people. We give you the goods. We give you good quality information once a week in your email. And so we send out newsletters, probably on Saturday's mid-morning on average. These are filled with blogs, the latest content, and everything you need to know in order to get through your week with High Noon Light. So let us light up your inbox. Join our newsletter by going to highnoon.org. It's all right there. It's super easy. We won't spam you. We just want to let you stay connected to this High Noon Providence. So go to highnoon.org, and sign up for our newsletter.